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	<title>Comments on: After all that&#8217;s been said</title>
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		<title>By: Jucato&#8217;s Data Core &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Updates, Changes, and Plans</title>
		<link>http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/comment-page-1/#comment-33825</link>
		<dc:creator>Jucato&#8217;s Data Core &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Updates, Changes, and Plans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/#comment-33825</guid>
		<description>[...] have sort of purposely avoided replying to my previous post about my thoughts on Kubuntu, partly to let it die a slow and silent death, and partly because [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have sort of purposely avoided replying to my previous post about my thoughts on Kubuntu, partly to let it die a slow and silent death, and partly because [...]</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/comment-page-1/#comment-10433</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 04:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/#comment-10433</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a little late to the party, looks like, but I&#039;d still like to share my thoughts on Kubuntu.  I started out with KDE (On Mandrake) back when I first got into Linux.  I&#039;m comfortable in either KDE or Gnome, but there&#039;s no question that I like KDE a lot better and find it the superior environment.  I switched to SUSE as soon as it went OpenSuSE and left OpenSuSE 10.2 for Ubuntu due to some package manager issues.  Not long after came the infamous deal.  

Well, long story short, I&#039;m still running Ubuntu and missing KDE a good bit, so much so that I&#039;m really considering heading back to the SUSE camp next release despite their deal.  Many other distros hate some of my hardware, and I didn&#039;t like Kubuntu. Main reason being that I didn&#039;t like the way Kubuntu always lags a release or so behind Ubuntu in features.  I know it isn&#039;t the Kubuntu team&#039;s fault.  I know Kubuntu doesn&#039;t get the Canonical love that its Gnomish brother does, but it still sucks to wait 6 months for great new  features that are only a desktop-environment change away.  I really really wish that Ubuntu could be more like Mandriva with respect to Mandriva&#039;s desktop-agnostic attitude and equal support and integration for Gnome and KDE, but that&#039;s beside the point.  Point is, here&#039;s my take on the options:

1)  Constantly lagging behind Ubuntu feature-wise doesn&#039;t look good, especially to people that don&#039;t know or don&#039;t care about the politics involved.  If it isn&#039;t possible to release simultaneously with Ubuntu and still keep features, then how bad would it be to delay the release a little, as many have already suggested?  For all I care, having Kubuntu versions release 3 months after the respective Ubuntu version, but still retaining all features of said Ubuntu version, would be fine.  Or maybe even break off entirely and sync more with KDE.  For better or worse, a common perception of Kubuntu is &quot;Ubuntu with a &#039;K&#039;(DE) tacked on.  It really seems like, if possible, the best path would be to either do whatever it takes to ensure equality with Ubuntu on every release, or start doing your own thing to give Kubuntu its own unique identity and innovations.  

2)  Offhand remark:  {Ku,Xu,Edu,U}buntu is the only distro I know of that has to split its name over which desktop you are running.  A unified Ubuntu with teams working on each flavor would be best, but in a perfect world, Bug #1 would be fixed by now too.

3)  KDE 4.  Use it.  Use it wisely.  4.0 isn&#039;t going to win many new converts, but once KDE 4 hits its stride, this will be your best opportunity to catch up to and maybe even exceed Ubuntu.  Gnome still has little improvements from release to release, but the whole thing feels a bit stagnant.  The more popular KDE 4 becomes, the more better for Kubuntu&#039;s advancement.

4) Here&#039;s a random thought.  Feel free to ignore it:  Any possible chance of/benefits to some sort of collaboration with Linux Mint?  They know how to take stock Ubuntu and &quot;freshen it up a bit.&quot;  Maybe they don&#039;t really focus too much on KDE right now, but both Kubuntu and Mint are focused on creating an end user product out of (originally) Debian upstream packages.  Mint just bases on Ubuntu instead of Debian.  But both Mint and Kubuntu are similar in that they are community offshoots of Ubuntu.  If the idea of working side by side with Mint is anathema, just brush it aside, but there are more than a couple groups out there that base distros off of Ubuntu or Kubuntu, and I&#039;m just trying to think of ways to strengthen KDE and Kubuntu manpower, especially if Kubuntu ever does really split from Ubuntu.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a little late to the party, looks like, but I&#8217;d still like to share my thoughts on Kubuntu.  I started out with KDE (On Mandrake) back when I first got into Linux.  I&#8217;m comfortable in either KDE or Gnome, but there&#8217;s no question that I like KDE a lot better and find it the superior environment.  I switched to SUSE as soon as it went OpenSuSE and left OpenSuSE 10.2 for Ubuntu due to some package manager issues.  Not long after came the infamous deal.  </p>
<p>Well, long story short, I&#8217;m still running Ubuntu and missing KDE a good bit, so much so that I&#8217;m really considering heading back to the SUSE camp next release despite their deal.  Many other distros hate some of my hardware, and I didn&#8217;t like Kubuntu. Main reason being that I didn&#8217;t like the way Kubuntu always lags a release or so behind Ubuntu in features.  I know it isn&#8217;t the Kubuntu team&#8217;s fault.  I know Kubuntu doesn&#8217;t get the Canonical love that its Gnomish brother does, but it still sucks to wait 6 months for great new  features that are only a desktop-environment change away.  I really really wish that Ubuntu could be more like Mandriva with respect to Mandriva&#8217;s desktop-agnostic attitude and equal support and integration for Gnome and KDE, but that&#8217;s beside the point.  Point is, here&#8217;s my take on the options:</p>
<p>1)  Constantly lagging behind Ubuntu feature-wise doesn&#8217;t look good, especially to people that don&#8217;t know or don&#8217;t care about the politics involved.  If it isn&#8217;t possible to release simultaneously with Ubuntu and still keep features, then how bad would it be to delay the release a little, as many have already suggested?  For all I care, having Kubuntu versions release 3 months after the respective Ubuntu version, but still retaining all features of said Ubuntu version, would be fine.  Or maybe even break off entirely and sync more with KDE.  For better or worse, a common perception of Kubuntu is &#8220;Ubuntu with a &#8216;K&#8217;(DE) tacked on.  It really seems like, if possible, the best path would be to either do whatever it takes to ensure equality with Ubuntu on every release, or start doing your own thing to give Kubuntu its own unique identity and innovations.  </p>
<p>2)  Offhand remark:  {Ku,Xu,Edu,U}buntu is the only distro I know of that has to split its name over which desktop you are running.  A unified Ubuntu with teams working on each flavor would be best, but in a perfect world, Bug #1 would be fixed by now too.</p>
<p>3)  KDE 4.  Use it.  Use it wisely.  4.0 isn&#8217;t going to win many new converts, but once KDE 4 hits its stride, this will be your best opportunity to catch up to and maybe even exceed Ubuntu.  Gnome still has little improvements from release to release, but the whole thing feels a bit stagnant.  The more popular KDE 4 becomes, the more better for Kubuntu&#8217;s advancement.</p>
<p>4) Here&#8217;s a random thought.  Feel free to ignore it:  Any possible chance of/benefits to some sort of collaboration with Linux Mint?  They know how to take stock Ubuntu and &#8220;freshen it up a bit.&#8221;  Maybe they don&#8217;t really focus too much on KDE right now, but both Kubuntu and Mint are focused on creating an end user product out of (originally) Debian upstream packages.  Mint just bases on Ubuntu instead of Debian.  But both Mint and Kubuntu are similar in that they are community offshoots of Ubuntu.  If the idea of working side by side with Mint is anathema, just brush it aside, but there are more than a couple groups out there that base distros off of Ubuntu or Kubuntu, and I&#8217;m just trying to think of ways to strengthen KDE and Kubuntu manpower, especially if Kubuntu ever does really split from Ubuntu.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan Carlos Torres (jucato): After all that’s been said</title>
		<link>http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/comment-page-1/#comment-7927</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan Carlos Torres (jucato): After all that’s been said</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/#comment-7927</guid>
		<description>[...] This is the cached version of  http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/   We are neither affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible for its content.     Juan Carlos Torres (jucato): After all that’s been said [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is the cached version of  <a href="http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/" rel="nofollow">http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/</a>   We are neither affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible for its content.     Juan Carlos Torres (jucato): After all that’s been said [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Linux Index &#187; Juan Carlos Torres: Updates, Changes, and Plans</title>
		<link>http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/comment-page-1/#comment-7517</link>
		<dc:creator>The Linux Index &#187; Juan Carlos Torres: Updates, Changes, and Plans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/#comment-7517</guid>
		<description>[...] have sort of purposely avoided replying to my previous post about my thoughts on Kubuntu, partly to let it die a slow and silent death, and partly because [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have sort of purposely avoided replying to my previous post about my thoughts on Kubuntu, partly to let it die a slow and silent death, and partly because [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jucato&#8217;s Data Core &#187; Archives &#187; Updates, Changes, and Plans</title>
		<link>http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/comment-page-1/#comment-7512</link>
		<dc:creator>Jucato&#8217;s Data Core &#187; Archives &#187; Updates, Changes, and Plans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/#comment-7512</guid>
		<description>[...] have sort of purposely avoided replying to my previous post about my thoughts on Kubuntu, partly to let it die a slow and silent death, and partly because [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have sort of purposely avoided replying to my previous post about my thoughts on Kubuntu, partly to let it die a slow and silent death, and partly because [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Serhiy</title>
		<link>http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/comment-page-1/#comment-7030</link>
		<dc:creator>Serhiy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/#comment-7030</guid>
		<description>I agree with post #20. Why don&#039;t you shift your release cycle???

Why don&#039;t you made up some better name than kubuntu?    Some people just can&#039;t understand what is &quot;kubuntu&quot;. It sounds almost as an &quot;ubuntu&quot;. But what is the difference?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with post #20. Why don&#8217;t you shift your release cycle???</p>
<p>Why don&#8217;t you made up some better name than kubuntu?    Some people just can&#8217;t understand what is &#8220;kubuntu&#8221;. It sounds almost as an &#8220;ubuntu&#8221;. But what is the difference?</p>
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		<title>By: Scorp1us</title>
		<link>http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/comment-page-1/#comment-7029</link>
		<dc:creator>Scorp1us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 14:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jucato.org/blog/after-all-thats-been-said/#comment-7029</guid>
		<description>I am of the wait for KDE4 mind set. But I understand that alone won&#039;t be enough. See, right now, you are only maintaining a different implementation as something else that already exists, and KDE is not the Ubuntu main GUI. You will forever be playing catchup in this scenario, because with both implementations being equal, the one that leads the one to stick with. We hope KDE 4 will provide the KDE experience to be a better implementation and/or have more value. If that is the case, then it will become dominant naturally. The other notion I postulate is that KDE apps are easier to develop, and we should be able to attract more developers and achieve higher &quot;velocity&quot; than GNOME. This would naturally switch the balance of power to KDE. 

As you see, there is no quick fix. We have to win over the GNOME developers and have then develop for KDE. But there are some things we can do to speed this along... 1) Identify features that are hard/not possible to implement in GNOME. 2) Recruit GNOME developers specifically (this is better than MORE KDE devs, because it comes at the expense of GNOME development, and we get their ideas too.) This of course requires several criteria to be met: traditionally the license terms were the sticking point. Some still think Qt4 is not Free. Also, you have to convince devs that they can code faster/easier in KDE, and finally that C++ is worth learning (if they are still coding the C API).

Do I feel guilty about &quot;scheming&quot; this way? No, because it is public, and every developer wants to have people user their code. If my presumption that KDE development is faster, then this would only empower the developer more. They could choose then to work on more apps, or put more features into the app. Either way you cut it, I think devs would be happier on KDE/Qt. I&#039;ve often been encouraged (read: made) to learn stuff that I didn&#039;t want to, but was eventually glad I did.

If you take anything from this comment let it be that: If you identify the value, and work on equaling  and extending that value, you will naturally become the preferred solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am of the wait for KDE4 mind set. But I understand that alone won&#8217;t be enough. See, right now, you are only maintaining a different implementation as something else that already exists, and KDE is not the Ubuntu main GUI. You will forever be playing catchup in this scenario, because with both implementations being equal, the one that leads the one to stick with. We hope KDE 4 will provide the KDE experience to be a better implementation and/or have more value. If that is the case, then it will become dominant naturally. The other notion I postulate is that KDE apps are easier to develop, and we should be able to attract more developers and achieve higher &#8220;velocity&#8221; than GNOME. This would naturally switch the balance of power to KDE. </p>
<p>As you see, there is no quick fix. We have to win over the GNOME developers and have then develop for KDE. But there are some things we can do to speed this along&#8230; 1) Identify features that are hard/not possible to implement in GNOME. 2) Recruit GNOME developers specifically (this is better than MORE KDE devs, because it comes at the expense of GNOME development, and we get their ideas too.) This of course requires several criteria to be met: traditionally the license terms were the sticking point. Some still think Qt4 is not Free. Also, you have to convince devs that they can code faster/easier in KDE, and finally that C++ is worth learning (if they are still coding the C API).</p>
<p>Do I feel guilty about &#8220;scheming&#8221; this way? No, because it is public, and every developer wants to have people user their code. If my presumption that KDE development is faster, then this would only empower the developer more. They could choose then to work on more apps, or put more features into the app. Either way you cut it, I think devs would be happier on KDE/Qt. I&#8217;ve often been encouraged (read: made) to learn stuff that I didn&#8217;t want to, but was eventually glad I did.</p>
<p>If you take anything from this comment let it be that: If you identify the value, and work on equaling  and extending that value, you will naturally become the preferred solution.</p>
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